Post by Antarki on Dec 1, 2006 3:31:40 GMT
i want to talk here about something it has still not been specified (not that I know): the resources that will move every faction economy.
As you know, in RTW and RTWBI the absolute resource that raised armies, paid taxes, built cities and showed wich faction was the richest was the famous dennary. money, paid or pillaged was the main motor of the game´s economy
Now, ¿what can be the economic motor for a mod ambiented in a world where money, at least as how me know it, didnt exist? certainly, this for me is a structural obstacle that resides deep in the game engine and regards a big historical incoherence and flaw for a mod like this. nevertheless, Im optimist this flaw can be solutioned.
I dont know if you have thinked about it, maybe you already arrived to a solution, But thinking about it I remembered Starcraft. Yes, there is not a possible relation beween inca slingers and Hydralisks, but there is something about the Zerg "theorical" managment that can give lights to out concern.
as you should know (because you should know, who has never played starcraft? , Zerg overlords gave "control" over underlings wich incremented the total reproduction capacity of the race. the control here worked as something like an abstract resource that permited the main center to given its control capacity, train more units or expand itself. ¿What relation exists between this and the andean world?
The tribute provinces gave to the inca state was not in species as the provinces of the Aztec empire gave to the mexicas. the tribute in the andes was basically work force: the empire was in neccesity of "control" over peasants work force to build their structures, raise their armies, or to increment the state food and cloth depots. the so called "wellfare characteristic" of the incan and andean states resided in the control they had of spare or lord -owned work force: lots of provinces of the inca where incorporated with just a reprocity agreement between the local curaca and the inca lord, in wich the curaca gave the inca work force in exchange of prebends and wellfare.
How can this work in the game in my idea:
1: lets just call the resource " control" (if you have a better name, you can proposse it)
2: the control can be quantified in "control poins" that way, 1 dennary: 1 control point
3: the "taxes" in a settlement can be changed for "pression" (or other name): high pressure means higher control (wich means higher pression over work force, higher demand of productivity, higher appropiation of the resources for the dominant factions rather than the local people etc. thisn of curse can anger the locals) lower pression means, well, less demand of control over local resources, lands and work force. this will keep the locals happy.
4: the "control income" can be influenced by, well, commerce (exchange, well), resources, land productivity, etc. just like in RTW
5: units and buildings, obviously, will require control points: in the case of units, population from the settlement will be extrated for the unit and also "control" points, wich means there is a human resource being used and controlled. buidings need CP as it represents the work force needed for the edification.
6: when "bribing" a unit or character inviting him to your faction or just dispersing its army, the CP spent would represent that the character has been given a shire (bribing would then go something like: offer a Curaca charge in reprociry) or control over work force, appart of some gifts coming form the states reserves and lands. got it?
7: well, negative CP cannot mean debts... it just means you control capacity has fallen beyond your normal capacity, and if t continues falling it means you have lost or are loosing your work force, reserves in storage, etc. for, example, when there is a big army and the next turn their "mainteinance" (wich are control points) is not covered cause of low CP. this would mean something like the unit has recieved poor or not recieved, food, clothing, work force replacement in his homeland and so more during the 6 months of the las turn. our imagination can help there and the common player -i think - would get the idea of whats going on. he wont get lost or think the thing is stupid.
Thats was a looooooong explanation. Hope this thread has not been touched yet. well, i also want to know your ideas about this. I f you have other and historically coherent ideas just put them here
Bye for now!
As you know, in RTW and RTWBI the absolute resource that raised armies, paid taxes, built cities and showed wich faction was the richest was the famous dennary. money, paid or pillaged was the main motor of the game´s economy
Now, ¿what can be the economic motor for a mod ambiented in a world where money, at least as how me know it, didnt exist? certainly, this for me is a structural obstacle that resides deep in the game engine and regards a big historical incoherence and flaw for a mod like this. nevertheless, Im optimist this flaw can be solutioned.
I dont know if you have thinked about it, maybe you already arrived to a solution, But thinking about it I remembered Starcraft. Yes, there is not a possible relation beween inca slingers and Hydralisks, but there is something about the Zerg "theorical" managment that can give lights to out concern.
as you should know (because you should know, who has never played starcraft? , Zerg overlords gave "control" over underlings wich incremented the total reproduction capacity of the race. the control here worked as something like an abstract resource that permited the main center to given its control capacity, train more units or expand itself. ¿What relation exists between this and the andean world?
The tribute provinces gave to the inca state was not in species as the provinces of the Aztec empire gave to the mexicas. the tribute in the andes was basically work force: the empire was in neccesity of "control" over peasants work force to build their structures, raise their armies, or to increment the state food and cloth depots. the so called "wellfare characteristic" of the incan and andean states resided in the control they had of spare or lord -owned work force: lots of provinces of the inca where incorporated with just a reprocity agreement between the local curaca and the inca lord, in wich the curaca gave the inca work force in exchange of prebends and wellfare.
How can this work in the game in my idea:
1: lets just call the resource " control" (if you have a better name, you can proposse it)
2: the control can be quantified in "control poins" that way, 1 dennary: 1 control point
3: the "taxes" in a settlement can be changed for "pression" (or other name): high pressure means higher control (wich means higher pression over work force, higher demand of productivity, higher appropiation of the resources for the dominant factions rather than the local people etc. thisn of curse can anger the locals) lower pression means, well, less demand of control over local resources, lands and work force. this will keep the locals happy.
4: the "control income" can be influenced by, well, commerce (exchange, well), resources, land productivity, etc. just like in RTW
5: units and buildings, obviously, will require control points: in the case of units, population from the settlement will be extrated for the unit and also "control" points, wich means there is a human resource being used and controlled. buidings need CP as it represents the work force needed for the edification.
6: when "bribing" a unit or character inviting him to your faction or just dispersing its army, the CP spent would represent that the character has been given a shire (bribing would then go something like: offer a Curaca charge in reprociry) or control over work force, appart of some gifts coming form the states reserves and lands. got it?
7: well, negative CP cannot mean debts... it just means you control capacity has fallen beyond your normal capacity, and if t continues falling it means you have lost or are loosing your work force, reserves in storage, etc. for, example, when there is a big army and the next turn their "mainteinance" (wich are control points) is not covered cause of low CP. this would mean something like the unit has recieved poor or not recieved, food, clothing, work force replacement in his homeland and so more during the 6 months of the las turn. our imagination can help there and the common player -i think - would get the idea of whats going on. he wont get lost or think the thing is stupid.
Thats was a looooooong explanation. Hope this thread has not been touched yet. well, i also want to know your ideas about this. I f you have other and historically coherent ideas just put them here
Bye for now!